FOSS Codecs For Online Video: Input
Feedback and Input Into Report on FOSS Codecs for Online Video: Usability, Uptake and Development
FEEDBACK ON SECOND DRAFT (1.2)
Please paste your input here...
INPUT FROM FIRST DRAFT (1.1)
FROM KEN LARSON - FMJ PROJECT, VIA THEORA LIST
This is a fantastic summary of FOSS/Multimedia.
I thought it might be worth mentioning the FMJ project, and its subprojects ffmpeg-java and theora-java in your document.
FMJ is an open-source implementation of the Java Media Framework (JMF). It is still under development and is not at the same level of maturity of the of some of the other FOSS projects you mention. But nonetheless some basic playback, processing, RTP, and capture device functionality is supported.
It supports ogg/vorbis/theora via the jorbis, jogg, and jheora (jheora is from the Cortado applet, and is LGPL) libraries. It is possible to assemble all of these components into an applet, we have a live demo at http://fmj.sourceforge.net/live_demo.php The functionality is not at the same level as the cortado applet. However, development on the cortado applet seems to have reached a standstill, and the FMJ project is still making progress. To the extent that you are making recommedations for development resources, FMJ is always glad to have help.
The applet is only one small part of FMJ. I can give you any additional details, if you are interested.
Thanks,
Ken Larson FMJ project, fmj.sourceforge.net
ANNA NOTES
Ken Larson contacted us to let us know about the FMJ project as an alternative to the Cortado applet, though the applet is only one small part of FMJ. I tested the video browser applet at the demo page here: http://fmj-sf.net/live_demo.php
Screenshot of FMJ browser applet for Ogg Theora/Vorbis
The installation of software to use the applet proved to be somewhat of a barrier at this stage, on a Mac.I installed 10.4 on my laptop in order to run JRE 5.0 (will not run on Mac OS 10.3.9 or below). I then had to select to use the JRE 5.0 in the browser as my default JRE is used by default for browser applets on the Mac using an application bundled with JRE. This would turn many users off at this stage I fear.
I visited the demo page and had to wait a minute or so for it to load, then reload the page in order to get the applet to work. 10 seconds after reload the applet loaded and the video played. The playback stuttered as the demo page indicates that "there is no buffering of the media implemented yet". Controls are limited at the moment - only play and stop are available.
The project seems very interesting with much potential, but is not developed enough for implementation at this stage. If further work is to be done to improve Cortado it is worth investigating the FMJ project more fully to establish where to put our development efforts.
FROM SILVIA PFEIFFER - ANNODEX/FOMS, VIA THEORA LIST
That is totally awesome! It's not totally complete - I seem to be missing xine and the OggCodecs windows tools. But it is a pretty damned good report!
Cheers, Silvia.
ANNA NOTES
OGGCODECS - did not refer to them as OggCodecs but as the Illiminable Ogg Direct Show Filters. http://wiki.transmission.cc/index.php/FOSS_Codecs_For_Online_Video:_Usability%2C_Uptake_and_Development#Ogg_for_Windows_-_Directshow
write a bit more about this project's background, stemming from annodex, and refer to it as OggCodecs as it sounds like that is the correct name. email silvia to see if development has indeed stopped on this, and if there are any other projects emerging to replace it for Windows?
I also mention xine in the report, just don't go into a huge amount of detail. It is listed in the comparison table of Xvid/Ogg compatible players, but VLC is chosen as the front-runner option for the Transmission network as it is cross-platform. I didn't have any extra time to look at wider applications for this area of software - and felt it better to focus on video-sharing use-cases in order to make it easy for my audience to find what they were looking for in the way of information and a bit of advice about which software to choose.
FROM AARON COLWELL, VIA THEORA LIST
Hi Anna,
This is a great summary. You should add Helix (www.helixcommunity.org) to this list as well. This is RealNetwork's open source codebase for its client, server, and encoder products. Vorbis/Theora support ships with the Linux version of the RealPlayer and all open source Helix Players. You can also download plugins for the Windows RealPlayer @ (https://helixcommunity.org/projects/xiph/summary). I've been trying to get Vorbis/Theora support to ship in the Windows RealPlayer for a while, but it doesn't seem to be a priority for the product owners right now. If you have any more questions about Helix just let me know. :)
Aaron
ANNA NOTES
add RealPlayer/Helix to player table and add extra info to table
FROM FELIPE PORTAVALES GOLDSTEIN, VIA THEORA LIST
On the topic "Future of Web Video"
You say: "Mobile devices often use hardware decoders rather than software decoders to playback video due to the relatively smaller capacity of the processor."
"Ogg Theora/Vorbis does have the potential to be supported by mobile devices using the software decoder, but it remains to be seen what the degree of uptake of this will be."
Actually, we are developing a Theora Hardware decoder solution aimed to mobile/embedded devices. The solution already works using our open source hardware design integrated with the LEON processor (an open source processor).
We are capable to decode Theora streams in real-time (20 FPS) up to 600 Kbps running on an FPGA at 50 MHz. The video resolution is still very limited, but we are hard-working to improve the resolution using a different memory hierarchy in our hardware decoder.
I believe that we will be able to decode high resolution video streams in the near future, with a complete open source hardware platform.
The hardware theora source code are located on the Xiph SVN: http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/theora-fpga/theora_hardware/
Cheers, Felipe
ANNA NOTES
add info on this to paragraph regarding mobiles hardware
FROM ANDY NICHOLSON, VIA TRANSMISSION LIST
Hi Anna
The JMF is released by Sun - http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jmf/ A library for java developers - so for instance, if you wanted to make a cross platform desktop app written in java, you could use this.
There was concern around Java because even though java apps could be distribued as FLOSS, the java virtual machine (the jvm - interepts byte code java ) wasnt FLOSS - but that may be changing : http://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-welcomes-gpl-java.html
andy
ANNA NOTES
Java has been released under GPLv2 http://www.sun.com/2006-1113/feature/
Add this info and brief summary about JMF to report.
FROM MICK FUZZ, VIA TRANSMISSION LIST
> The JMF is released by Sun - > > http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jmf/ > > A library for java developers - so for instance, if > > you wanted to make > > a cross platform desktop app written in java, you > > could use this.
I think it is used by the jubler application developers.
That is a java based app which is cross platform app for creating subtitles. I've created help files for it here and could really do with people with macs / linux testing it out to see if it works for them. It works ok on windows.
http://enr.clearerchannel.org/floss/multilingualdvd/jubler/index.html
i think this is the only opensource desktop tool that can do this kind of thing.
---
regarding the codecs and encoders
Media Coder: I've never been able to get to work at all! Really.
ANNA NOTES
leave Jubler out - beyond scope.
FROM AREK KORBIK, VIA THEORA LIST
The review looks very substantially, I'm sure it will be a good source of information for many people.
Small suggestion in the Mac/QuickTime aspect: QuickTime Pro is only needed if one wants to export (and do some simple editing tasks) directly in the QuickTime _Player_. However, the whole functionality of the QuickTime framework/libs is available to any application built on top of QuickTime, without needing to pay for Pro. For example, there is an excellent set of command line tools (qt_tools, http://www.omino.com/sw/qt_tools/ ) that allow manipulation of material in formats understandable to QuickTime, including importing, transcoding and exporting. (That means, e.g. with XiphQT installed, one can easily transcode h264 .mov into ogg/theora with one command line (plus optionally some clicking in the native QuickTime compression/export settings dialogs).)
Warm regards and many thanks for your work, Arek
ANNA NOTES
add info about quicktime pro as per above.
FROM BRIANNA, WIKIMEDIA COMMONS VIA EMAIL
(this second-hand, will meet soon)
add mediaWiki to CMS area
ANNA NOTES
met with brianna. introduction to wikimedia player coders not forthcoming.
however, further info about new version of player from brianna at end of input.
FROM MICKFUZZ, CLEARERCHANNEL VIA EMAIL
I did come across one burning issue which you may or may not choose to address. It's about trying to find an opensource encoding solution for creating files that play in Quick time.
Anyway here are some notes that I put on the wiki. Let me know what you reckon. I wish we could have a chat about it, doing it on email is a bit basic innit!
>>
Compatiblity with mp4/ iTunes (and podcast directory)/ iPods
I can see that there isn't a lot of support for x264 if you compare it to Xvid in terms of encoding applications, there *is* a huge need for it. iPod doesn't appear to play xvid encoded files. And indeed quicktime is pretty fussy about playing xvid full stop. I don't think it'll play an xvid/lame file which with an avi container. I'm trying to get these help files out to loads of Video Bloggers and small scale video groups who will probably want to create podcasts which people will add to iTunes directory. This is a massive outlet. Undercurrents is getting 30,000 viewers of each video they puts up about Bushcraft series from simply putting it in the iTunes directory. So this is becoming an issue to make sure mp4's are QT compatible.
It would be great if iTunes/ iPod could play ogg that's probably going to be abit of a wait. So it I think this issue does need to be addressed in the report.
What open source encoders can create iPod/ iTunes compatible files.
commandline Presumably ffmpeg or mencoder can do it. It would be good to get a setting. The mp4 files transcoded on archive.org work fine in iTunes. I found the following link. http://www.julien-oster.de/crash/122.html
gui windows
- Super - There is a GUI front end for windows called
Super which does the trick. http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/VideoDistribution/SuperMp4CreationiPodCompatible http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/VideoDistribution/SuperEncodingDvdCompliantFile for background info
- Avidemux doesn't appear to create mp4 files that can
be read by QT. My proposal would be to create template for that that will work in iPods, iTunes etc. I'll post up some proposals to the forum and see what response there is. http://www.avidemux.org/admForum/viewtopic.php?pid=21862#p21862
- Media Coder -I've given up on Media Coder
- MeGUI - too geeky even for me!
gui mac
- Avidemux is out for mac. I'd really like someone to
test it out. See flossmanuals for docshttp://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/VideoDistribution/
- ffmpegx
I can't get the iPod preset to work in iTunes which is strange and not a good sign. This needs investigating.
I also can't get the xvid presets for ffmpeg or mencoder to output files which play in quicktime. There is a Mp4 preset which does work in iTunes but not tested in iPod
NOTE: This input may not be correct as Mick says his test computer was not set up correctly.
ANNA NOTES
emphasise usefulness of x264 for iPod.
FROM BRIANNA LAUGHER - WIKIMEDIA COMMONS, VIA EMAIL
Hi Anna,
Here is the info about the OggHandler native MW extension I was talking about:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OggHandler
video: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Marmota_monax.ogg audio: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Beethoven_-_Sonata_opus_111_-2.ogg
I will get in contact with Tim and Greg.
ANNA NOTES
Tim Starling main developer - Developer Liaison for Wikimedia Foundation
"OggHandler is an extension which allows you to display Ogg audio and video files in wiki pages, using the same syntax as for image files. It also has limited support for metadata display on image description pages.
We have explicit support for the following video players:
* Cortado (bundled Java applet) * VLC (IE or Mozilla) * QuickTime with XiphQT (Mozilla only)
We have generic support for clients which claim to support application/ogg in navigator.mimeTypes, and for clients which recognise the <video> tag."
README FILE http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/OggHandler/README?view=markup
Project includes a fork of the Cortado project.
Has auto-thumb generation via ffmpeg (with bug-fix).
Allows for <video>/ogg enabled browsers, plus support for VLC (ie/mozilla) and QT with XiphQT (mozilla)
Testing...
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Marmota_monax.ogg
using browser without native Ogg support.
Plugins:
Annodex/Ogg Plugin
File name: liboggplay.plugin Version 1.0, copyright 2007 Annodex Association http://www.annodex.net
MIME Type Description Suffixes Enabled application/liboggplay liboggplay annodex files axv Yes
XiphQT was installed, but did not list as a plugin in Firefox.
Video took 22 seconds to load applet, then buffering time. Took 10seconds before actually buffering to buffer. Scrub bar did not display accurate place during playback - reached end of playback progress bar 5 seconds before playback finished. Applet still flickers when using scrollbar on browser.
what changes have been made to Cortado?
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2007-10-01/Technology_report
"The Cortado player sometimes used by the OggHandler media handler to play audio/video (depending on what software is available on the viewer's computer) has been patched to no longer sometimes cut off the end of the sound. (r26224, bug 11232; note that you may have to bypass your cache to gain the benefit of this fix)"
link to old (apparently) wikimedia player http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=A11v+1094228.ogg
(prior to Arctic Giant? think so)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gmaxwell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tim_Starling
POST DRAFT REPORT TO TALK PAGES FOR GREG AND TIM
