Flossmanuals IRC Notes
Adam starts with floss manuals (flossmanuals.net )
<zoeyoung> formerly a new media artists, now head hoincho of flossmanuals, site for documentation of free software
<zoeyoung> mick goinna talk about his work too
<zoeyoung> floss manuals is free libre open source software
<zoeyoung> free documentation, stichting organisation based in amsterdam, framework for applying for funding
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<zoeyoung> free softweare users know that documentstion is pretty bad, non existent, terrible of written for experienced users
<zoeyoung> flossmanuals not ideologiscal
<zoeyoung> people are tempted by usability in the end
<zoeyoung> unless they are alreeady ideologues
<zoeyoung> this kind of pain is not welcome to everyone
<zoeyoung> floss manuals is a twiki based, structured wiki
<zoeyoung> designed not to look like a wiki
<zoeyoung> extended tobe a documentatioin platform
<zoeyoung> because there are no others
<zoeyoung> twiki extended yusing plugins
<zoeyoung> donated to twiki gpl depository
<zoeyoung> written in perl, some shell scripts and a bit of pythin
<zoeyoung> \vback up, migration etc easy
<zoeyoung> manuals are separated from ynamic back end
<zoeyoung> front is dynamic html
<zoeyoung> reeaders get stable version of the manuals
<zoeyoung> index on left allows browing around, how to do basic things
<zoeyoung> how to install softwares
<zoeyoung> what is suynaptic package manager
<zoeyoung> everything is thorough as possible
<zoeyoung> exoplain any jargon in text itself
<zoeyoung> use jargon because new users need to learn to speak geek
<zoeyoung> to seek help later
<zoeyoung> PDFs same as website but download4able
<zoeyoung> internally indexed
<zoeyoung> bit ugly, if anyone knows python report led ,,>>>???
<zoeyoung> needs work
<zoeyoung> view or print versions
<zoeyoung> credits are tracked
<zoeyoung> licensed undfer GPL content not softweare license
<zoeyoung> print on demand versions of the books look good
<harcesz> is it GPL 2 or 3? :]
<zoeyoung> dunno mate!
<zoeyoung> POD done through lulu
<zoeyoung> non profit sales
<zoeyoung> back end where you write the manuals
<zoeyoung> list of chapters
<zoeyoung> create an accounbt to track copyright and credit you
<zoeyoung> not to be tracked
<zoeyoung> none of this info published, adam not interested in it
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<clara> hi
<zoeyoung> drag and drop elements to create chapters
<zoeyoung> can rename chapters
<zoeyoung> mochpit??
<zoeyoung> can add extra section headers etc
<zoeyoung> to create hguman readable incdex
<zoeyoung> when you hit 'publish', new chapter goes to front end
<zoeyoung> can keep working on it back end while froint end stays static
<zoeyoung> only a few people can hit publish to ensurfe the reader gets good documentation, completre
<zoeyoung> needs to be best tools, best documentation
<zoeyoung> for floss
<zoeyoung> better than all the rest...
<zoeyoung> wysiwig editor
<zoeyoung> because wiki markup is a bit diriculous
<zoeyoung> ridiculous
<zoeyoung> use html file formats because easy to output
<zoeyoung> people come to wiki with too many different approaches
<zoeyoung> don;t need a ny new markups to use thishtml
<zoeyoung> double click on image, can see image in editor, crop etc within browser
<zoeyoung> upload image in same interface, never overwrites others' upload
<zoeyoung> xinha
<harcesz> xena :]
<zoeyoung> back end. copyright attributed to author under gpl
<zoeyoung> credsits get published
<zoeyoung> remix function
<harcesz> (as in the warrior prices)
<zoeyoung> choose chapters, drag and drop chapters from various manuals
<zoeyoung> princess,
<zoeyoung> can download as html in zip or tar formal
<zoeyoung> format
<zoeyoung> can change CSS
<zoeyoung> download in zip or tar comes with embedded css
<zoeyoung> so can look nice on dvd or whatever
<zoeyoung> remix api means you can cut and p[aste lines of html
<zoeyoung> add it to your sirte
<zoeyoung> live line maintained by computer
<zoeyoung> but looks like it's in your site
<zoeyoung> experimental api at mo, needs to be tidier
<zoeyoung> can alter some css elements
<zoeyoung> for POD creation use luna.com? pdf generated using scribus
<zoeyoung> interesteing internal scrip[ting api allows live plug ins
<zoeyoung> tweaked for output pdf uploaded to lulu
<zoeyoung> a bit manual at the mo. adam goes to audacity manual, goes through it alphabetically, is has a nice easy templatiung system predefined, put s in content with nothing fancy but license and credit ino, use scribus to load it
<zoeyoung> see images appear, styles and so forth appear
<zoeyoung> lucas..?? from media developed the pyuthin api
<zoeyoung> pythin
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<zoeyoung> python
<zoeyoung> duh
<zoeyoung> applies para styling etc
<harcesz> using a edit view with ?skin=ajax in to url gives a nice ver without any fancy backgrounds and so on
<devlish> put a link, in plus mannuals .licence, that is where we put this stuff
<harcesz> saved to desktop uploaded to inscribus works really fine outputed to PDF to be printed
<devlish> we don't use the commercial free software license. we don't use the free documentaion license
<devlish> it is a ridculois license
<devlish> it does not make reuse easy
<devlish> and the terms are terribel
<devlish> persoanlly I don't like creative commons
<devlish> somebody tell what license a creative commons license is compatable lis and then I am sent a linl from them, which when i follow there are no licenses there
<devlish> I am using gpl
<zoeyoung> not a lot of compatible licenses
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<zoeyoung> can't share content between creative commons licenses
<devlish> do u have problems if a free software project has its own documetaion team, can u still share content
<devlish> the gpl is a content license in my pinion which has come to be used for software
<zoeyoung> gpl license used mainly for software
<devlish> what do u guys do with text re use
<harcesz> http://creativecommons.org.tw/licwiz/english.html
<harcesz> wizzard checking compatible licences althou only in CC space
<devlish> if you coem up with a better description will that go in all the mannuals
<devlish> demonstraiton on editing text taking palce
<devlish> so if you up date it is updated through all other manuals
<devlish> print on demand q
<harcesz> alternative to lulu - lighting source - printing on demand
<devlish> at the moment you are using lou lou, there is lightening source whicjh is half the price
<zoeyoung> lightning source
<devlish> it is not a consumer tool. you have to contact the company and get an account
<zoeyoung> mick now on how transmission network has been working
<harcesz> https://www.lightningsource.com/
<zoeyoung> been creating mailing lisrts on various projects
<devlish> creating mailing lists and taking forward different areas
<zoeyoung> eg documentation, tool for all sorts of video projects
<devlish> wrting documetaion on html pages
<zoeyoung> mick's vbeen writing a lot opf doumentation in html pages
<zoeyoung> got funding to work with adam hyde
<zoeyoung> 7 or 8 thousand euro
<zoeyoung> first draft now out
<zoeyoung> seeking feedback
<zoeyoung> how can it be improved?
<devlish> 7 0r 8 thousand euros to work on project the first draft is out
<zoeyoung> presented different ways
<devlish> wnat feed back ion how it has been done and how it can be improved
<devlish> free software directly into floss
<devlish> avid imox concentrate on how to encode to mpg 4 ot avi
<zoeyoung> avidemux
<zoeyoung> can extract dvd subtitles
<devlish> extract dvd sun titles can be
<devlish> retranslet into other languages
<zoeyoung> convert to .srt
<devlish> trad approch to documetain is not really enough because of export
<devlish> we need a work flow appraoch
<zoeyoung> not enough to only give full guidance on one programme, whole process involves workflow through various softewares
<devlish> task based guides
<zoeyoung> hence task based guides
<devlish> url clearer channel.org/guides
<devlish> prepare video, encode videoand up laod it
<devlish> for example archive.org
<devlish> I just want simple video up loading, is just a floss manuals page with different skin
<devlish> open with differnt tab
<devlish> new repository we came up with stoke ( free ware ) we cany't really put free ware doc inside floss mannuals
<devlish> a lot of peeps are using premier, so we need them to start using open source frames so we can encode it
<devlish> visionon tv want mp4 bit there does not seem to be an open source sotware to do that
<devlish> except encode up load on clearer channel page
<devlish> I have been using vlc it is not great
<devlish> but u can't resise in it
<devlish> really good defaults in encode free ware
<harcesz> another opensource transcoder - didnt check it yet but got good feedback
<harcesz> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=567016
<devlish> we should figure a really good way to get feed back on these guides
<harcesz> another simple gui one is the one biult in Kino
<devlish> how can I give feed back
<devlish> how do u interact with the user
<devlish> throught the floss manuals list
<devlish> really would like a way of giving direct feed back
<zoeyoung> flossmanuals manuals has feedback option
<devlish> in floss user manauls there is a direct way for each manual
<zoeyoung> currently disaabled due to spam
<zoeyoung> naybe use tx documentation list
<devlish> documetation for video distibution side use transmission
<zoeyoung> also cos including some proprietary stuff
<devlish> transmission .cc at side projects
<devlish> floss manuals is being manged on sit eworking on farsi
<devlish> just looking at translating from one manual site to another
<devlish> and you can tracjk changes
<devlish> we would like a transcider with options on and that is it
<devlish> trnascoder
<harcesz> http://mediacoder.sourceforge.net/
<devlish> there is no way of making some of these processes stupid
<harcesz> a simple gui trancoder, not perfect but simple to use
<devlish> soreneson squeeze is intuitive
<harcesz> lets user chouse stuff like "transcode for PSP" or "mobile"
<devlish> I am sure that open source software needs to have a friendly interface
<devlish> we are still young in the software area most open source are not with the levl of commercial soft ware as yet
<devlish> you have to be prepared to join lists
<devlish> and comment on the software you are using
<devlish> will developers listen ?
<devlish> frame feed back and put on list a lot of developers find this useful
<zoeyoung> transmission-documentation
<zoeyoung> @transmission.cc
<devlish> add e mail to list
<zoeyoung> is the documentation list
<devlish> ]go on mailing list
<devlish> feed back is useful
<devlish> questions??
<devlish> when i go to suit case manual site nothing comes up
<devlish> suit case manual is repository
<devlish> so you have to fo to site rather then read
<devlish> suit case maanuals is a back end not a front end
<devlish> soma parts are nearly there like zxmpx there is a manual for
<devlish> fmmpe x sorry
<devlish> but this is not open source
<devlish> maes like the above make people feel ill before they go there
<devlish> names sorry
<devlish> you can't be clearer says audience
<devlish> zoe the names are an issue
<devlish> I'll think of a name i'll do it for free
<devlish> have stupid questions that can lead people through the flow
<devlish> this could be away through the prepared sections
<devlish> there is the mind map sectopn but it is very ltd
<devlish> mick found its presentation ltd
<devlish> demo with exprting premier project
<devlish> step by step guide shown on floss manual site
<devlish> sorry clear channel
<devlish> duh!!
<devlish> it wouldn't be difficult to write it in java script
<devlish> that would be good speaking as a relatively techy filamaker, I can't work with these interfaces
<devlish> you can use the remixing tool of floss manuals to work in this way
<devlish> maybe you could invent a nomancalture for some standerds to avoid fmmp x
<devlish> just some sysytem of nanm,ing things
<devlish> we have to go by some system, that is the idea behind the meta data standerdisation
<devlish> a differnt approach audio software could have audio as a name tag
<devlish> what can we actually do as a net work of people
<devlish> what is the next step
<devlish> you need a catogrisation
<devlish> then catogorise the software
<devlish> source forge has catogories
<devlish> the right response is we can't do that because.....
<devlish> there are ways of finding maes that are simple and approprate
<devlish> may be it is ways of presenting the soft ware so the users just see the process
<devlish> what we are talking about here is an issue in open source period
<devlish> how do translate geek ?
<devlish> It is a larger open source problem
<devlish> look at abuntu, given it a name
<devlish> doesn't this mena we lose diversity in solutions
<devlish> the solution relies not on dumbing down but education
<devlish> we should be getting other people to that level
<devlish> disagreement in some areaas of the room
<devlish> hand to hand training makes this happen look at bit torrent
<devlish> what about people making video in emergency situations like Africa
<devlish> do they have time ?
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<devlish> you have to make stuff that is easy and fun
<devlish> I don't think it is mutually exclusive there is room for both appraoches
<devlish> that is why people use 4 tube
<devlish> a bridge between geek and non geek
<devlish> this project is for people making videos and using video software so assumes a certain level
<devlish> if you can some how figure out a system that makes the process clearer
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<devlish> clearer channel is not a solution for everything but is to help video makers
<devlish> anyone can understand concepts but don't always get jargon
<devlish> http://transmission.cc/projects]
<devlish> to join mailing list
<devlish> soemtimes it is good to work face to face
<harcesz> that was a call for local activity
