Strategising Video on the Web
this is simultaneous notes taken more or less direct from the internet relay chat at irc.freenode.org #transmission.cc
wordpress based around blogging
20:02 < zoeyou> a simple cms
20:02 < zoeyou> more complex are drupal and zupes and plone and zope
20:02 < maxigas_> Q: what's a CMS?
20:02 < zoeyou> even if not working technically
20:02 < maxigas_> A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMS
20:02 < zoeyou> content management system
20:02 < zoeyou> it is complex
20:03 < maxigas_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_management_system
20:03 < maxigas_> more exactly
20:03 < zoeyou> fantastuico an application that installs other applications including cms
20:03 < zoeyou> have to hack around a cms to get it to do what you want
20:03 < zoeyou> so many ways of presenting the material
20:04 < zoeyou> we were talking about video module for drupal, not doing what we want it
20:04 < zoeyou> so could rewrite module to meet needs
20:04 < zoeyou> what do you need from a cms?
20:04 < zoeyou> media rfi online
20:04 < zoeyou> \easy system for users to add their own content
20:05 < zoeyou> and profiles
20:05 < zoeyou> project profiles
20:05 < zoeyou> hours and hours of geeking not good
20:05 < zoeyou> get geeks to do it, but you have to tell them what to do
20:05 < zoeyou> be very specific, how would you like to distribute your content?
20:06 < zoeyou> lots of components within the need - upload, simple to use,
20:06 < zoeyou> easy to learn if you can look at it
20:07 < zoeyou> recommendation has to be, look at different options available, utube or
whether, exoperiment qwith your movies on them
20:07 < zoeyou> see what you like best of the resources they offer
20:07 < zoeyou> maybe an existing system does what you need
20:07 < zoeyou> or if you have a specialised requirement, make it very clear using examples to your geek
20:07 < zoeyou> utube wonl;t let you upload subtitles file to go with your video
20:08 < zoeyou> v important to have title file to enable easy translation
20:08 < zoeyou> test
20:09 < zoeyou> matroska container works with subtitles
20:09 < zoeyou> says szczym
20:10 < zoeyou> issue getting techie
20:10 < scout> (but its old and theres a need for something newer)
20:10 < zoeyou> shall we steer back to future of strategy for online video
20:11 < zoeyou> what is social relation you can create with your site?
20:11 < zoeyou> many to many, one to many, many to one...?
20:11 < zoeyou> aim to change other social relations at the same time
20:12 < zoeyou> works in mental health media, fighting discrimination on ground of mental health
20:12 < zoeyou> successful video cms
20:12 < zoeyou> very resource hungry to run and moderate
20:12 < zoeyou> then money ran out\
20:12 < zoeyou> needed moderation
20:12 < zoeyou> organisational site, some people got difficult on there so it was needed
20:13 < zoeyou> general poiint about moderation
20:13 < zoeyou> lots of groups have issues with it
20:13 < zoeyou> utube ignore it until someone raises a problem
20:13 < zoeyou> maybe differentiates and makes the success of utube\
20:13 < zoeyou> ignore copyright, defamation etc
20:13 < zoeyou> why not react, rather that be proactive
20:14 < zoeyou> hard for an organisation to do
20:14 < zoeyou> most of their staff of 67 are taking stuff down
20:15 < zoeyou> mental health site couldn't for that due to reputation
20:15 < zoeyou> utibe had 13 million dollar seed funding, sold for however many billion
20:15 < zoeyou> 1.6/
20:15 < zoeyou> works as a social entity, service,
20:15 < zoeyou> powst-moderated
20:15 < zoeyou> people shift to sites that moderate less
20:16 < zoeyou> survey of who uses and who is builder of tech
20:16 < zoeyou> some user builder
20:16 < zoeyou> we could try and focus here on two or three things that users realy need
20:17 < zoeyou> then get the builder to build them
20:17 < zoeyou> rdf as interface between users and builder
20:20 < zoeyou> fundamental gluer, common language
20:20 < zoeyou> then it doesn'ty matter which cms you use, any will be able to talk to each other
20:23 < zoeyou> been talking about this for five years
20:23 < zoeyou> learnning to speak each others' languages between geeks and users
20:24 < zoeyou> need to produce meaningful search results
20:24 < scout> geekspeech and unitarisation of description, so were more searchable
20:24 < zoeyou> and use metadata distribute content within our networks
20:25 < zoeyou> so any imf report posted on clearer channel would come to ifiwatch.tv
20:25 < zoeyou> automatically saving me lots of work
20:25 < zoeyou> simon wants to say something\
20:25 < zoeyou> need a tpol to extract the metadata
20:26 < zoeyou> inherent in media
20:26 < zoeyou> is this not starting poinmt
20:26 < zoeyou> maybe flag - for sunday\
20:26 < zoeyou> at moment, upload but also need desktop tool
20:27 < zoeyou> to fill in form ../??
20:27 < zoeyou> flickr an example of this
20:27 < zoeyou> www.flickr.com
20:27 < zoeyou> photo shariig site
20:27 < zoeyou> lots of metadata visible there
20:27 < zoeyou> floating question...
20:27 < zoeyou> sister project to rss project
20:28 < zoeyou> common aggregation site
20:28 < zoeyou> \to bring together the info
20:28 < zoeyou> what do people think about that? brings together all the rdf data
20:28 < zoeyou> \could it be a democracy player channel?
20:28 < zoeyou> more explanation pls
20:29 < zoeyou> gebnerate video file, create rdf. out oput it, where does it go, various places, could there be a single repository for it all to be collates
20:29 < zoeyou> where?
20:29 < zoeyou> could be one site, tx or whatever
20:29 < zoeyou> two things: distro mechanism, other is finding the stuff
20:30 < zoeyou> technical process, other side is finding it, only possible if properly described
20:30 < zoeyou> real shortage of rdf bots or spiders
20:30 < zoeyou> to collect and present knowledge usefully
20:30 < zoeyou> have to have these tools
20:30 < zoeyou> maybe they exist?
20:30 < zoeyou> so i am lost
20:31 < zoeyou> sorry
20:31 < zoeyou> all underpinned by data
20:31 < zoeyou> ;-)
20:32 < zoeyou> how to make it easy to build a system to build and system and engage with people uploading content to make sure everyone eeralises important of the data, othgersie their material will get lost
20:32 < zoeyou> also a translation issue
20:32 < zoeyou> term metadata is offputting
20:32 < zoeyou> 'the description'
20:32 < zoeyou> ??
20:32 < zoeyou> look on indymedia, see what people put in response to request for description
20:32 < zoeyou> crap
20:32 < zoeyou> the demo on monday
20:32 < zoeyou> for eg
20:32 < zoeyou> need an element of training
20:33 < zoeyou> maybe q and a
20:33 < zoeyou> build an answer from the responses
20:33 < zoeyou> people used to google, expect same for video
20:33 < scout> btw. maybe lets ask ogg theora author to include the stuff that we could come out with today?
20:33 < zoeyou> forms offputting
20:34 < zoeyou> need a friendly way to extract the info
20:34 < zoeyou> mybe this needs building into the code for distributing to particianst in metadata standard
20:35 < zoeyou> rem,ember this point for sunday
20:35 < zoeyou> also we need the rdf standard link on re:tx front page\
20:35 < zoeyou> job titles for volunteers who don;t make films but want to help
20:35 < zoeyou> one task is to get people to watch and descrive films
20:36 < zoeyou> non techie, manageable bits of work for volunrteers to help build the network
20:36 < zoeyou> idea of user tagging, getting them to flesh out.
20:36 < zoeyou> problem is same data for sorry lost again
20:37 < zoeyou> point of entry o metadata, can be analysed,
20:37 < zoeyou> doesn't have to be clever, could just count word, give you progress bar,
20:37 < zoeyou> tell you the description is poor.
20:37 < zoeyou> issue is communications
20:37 < zoeyou> need to make systems more friendly
20:38 < zoeyou> bit pedia
20:38 < zoeyou> website which stores metadata about peer to peer files available
20:38 < zoeyou> place where people sharing piraTED VIdeos share their info
20:38 < zoeyou> identifies files by a hash
20:39 < zoeyou> add comments
20:39 < maxigas_> http://bitpedia.org/
20:39 < zoeyou> eg poor quality copy, not what it says it is
20:39 < zoeyou> so before you download movie, can check here for int˙fo
20:39 < zoeyou> sounds good
20:39 < zoeyou> be more encouraging to userfs of an aggregatuon site if you could take that model and apply to other repositories
20:40 < zoeyou> some download sites link to bitpedia
20:40 < zoeyou> usually with p2p you just have file name
20:40 < zoeyou> might be user end description
20:40 < zoeyou> structured and unstructured metadata
20:41 < zoeyou> all goes into rdf.. doesn't need to be visible
20:41 < zoeyou> doesn;t all need to be standard schema
20:42 < zoeyou> as a user, try to avoid filling in forms
20:42 < zoeyou> the info in the form should explain exactly what the info is for
20:42 < zoeyou> maybe don;t want to show name
20:43 < zoeyou> e˙want to make informed decision about what info to add
20:43 < zoeyou> enable informed way to fill in
20:43 < zoeyou> another point for sunday, good
20:43 < zoeyou> when we talk about video, many types
20:44 < zoeyou> big budget docs, 1 hour activist reports\
20:44 < zoeyou> lasting ten mins
20:44 < zoeyou> iyswim
20:46 < zoeyou> if people know why it's worth spending time and training on metadata, the they can make decisions, invest time and energy
20:46 < zoeyou> information is key
20:46 < zoeyou> tell people what the differernce would be
20:46 < zoeyou> specify what impact of the information can be
20:47 < zoeyou> this jketasdata mightr seem dull, but it will be key for a long time
20:47 < zoeyou> cms, codecs etc can change in coming monthsd and years
20:47 < zoeyou> this is the one thing we can do well, and do now, and then whatever else canges, we have the info to find the metarial we are shgaring now, and into the future
20:48 < zoeyou> as long as we have the goo' to hold it together, we could be future proor˙f
20:48 < zoeyou> for sites with lots of resources, not so important, they can endelessly reinvent\
20:49 < zoeyou> always comes down to ability to search, only possible with good metadata
20:49 < zoeyou> ok, the important thing seems to be how people use it, and why. three
20:49 < zoeyou> incentives - why good to do
20:49 < zoeyou> regulation- standards
20:49 < zoeyou> design - not so much software but human user interface
20:50 < zoeyou> one step on is drawiung in designers to survery users needs, find rframeworks for actions
20:50 < zoeyou> people do this different ways. engagemedia has a three step way
20:50 < zoeyou> do I want to fill out a form or not? design approach\
20:50 < zoeyou> also language that's used
20:50 < zoeyou> taxonomy vs tags
20:52 < zoeyou> if we haven't goot resources to be flashy, we can be strategic visually, articically, design ways
20:54 < zoeyou> looking for jamie and jan's rdf report
20:55 < zoeyou> discussion of utube, google video issues
20:55 < zoeyou> how do we redefine ourselves to be relevant
20:56 < zoeyou> now that utube is popular and accessible and open access
20:56 < zoeyou> these prohects offer good design and usability BUT only allow you to access them through one site
20:56 < zoeyou> no syndication\
20:56 < zoeyou> not healthy
20:57 < zoeyou> they done well on the tech front, trabnscoding
20:57 < zoeyou> acvtivists spent so many years fafdfing about
20:57 < zoeyou> they took grand liberty of manipulating every file coming into their system
20:57 < zoeyou> we could have done that five years ago, but didn't take that liberty of transgressing rights
20:59 < zoeyou> hello, any one else uo for some typing??
21:00 < h2dj> oh.. plz
21:00 < zoeyou> can't fight the big boys
21:00 < zoeyou> but we can do something better
21:00 < zoeyou> what is useful?
21:01 < zoeyou> \specialised fields.. our categories
21:02 < zoeyou> ngvision, itallian video archive
21:02 < zoeyou> video
21:02 < zoeyou> developed a lot of information in file name
21:02 < zoeyou> not a real aggregator, but improving, sending rss
21:03 < zoeyou> ....
21:07 < zoeyou> networks, multi-nodal, ttranslation abnd subtitles
21:07 < zoeyou> scout translating revolt media materials into polish
21:08 < zoeyou> very simple can use freeware subtitle workshop
21:08 < zoeyou> to makie timecoded transcripts
21:08 < zoeyou> is good pracdtice ayway for haard of hearing
21:09 < gdm> zoeyou: i'mnot there, sorry, otherwise would type
21:09 < zoeyou> 4 stages of what we're doing
21:09 < zoeyou> creation,
21:09 * gdm very appreciative tho
21:09 < zoeyou> naming it
21:09 < zoeyou> finding it
21:09 < zoeyou> using it
21:09 < zoeyou> hey gdm, that's nice
21:10 < zoeyou> also where to put it
21:10 < zoeyou> transcripts and translations could be on common aggregatiopn site too
21:11 < zoeyou> uk indymedia puts metadata into names
21:11 < zoeyou> gives movie a six digit number
21:11 < zoeyou> no way way to get back the metadata from that
21:11 < zoeyou> one way could be through cms
21:12 < zoeyou> also unique identifier for each media item, fpid
21:12 < zoeyou> applies to each version
21:12 < zoeyou> could be watermarked during transcoding
21:13 < zoeyou> will it mix up if transcoded again/
21:13 < zoeyou> \some os media projects, argh I am lost
21:14 < zoeyou> oh enough
21:14 < zoeyou> idea to build metadata into the video came up in rome
21:15 < zoeyou> by the way is this text being logged somewhere???
21:17 < gdm> i have a log of all since i joined
21:17 < gdm> but not before that
21:17 < zoeyou> cool
21:18 < zoeyou> will see if someone else has a version\
21:18 < gdm> maxigas_: you logging?
21:18 < gdm> maxigas_: or got scrollback buffer you can grab?
21:18 < zoeyou> sorry got knackered and a bit lost
21:19 < zoeyou> maxigas is having a fag
21:19 < gdm> don't worry
21:19 < gdm> maxigas_ will see when (s)he comes back
21:19 < zoeyou> : 0)
21:19 < zoeyou> he is he
21:20 < zoeyou> \a thread not yet discussed
21:20 < zoeyou> maybe implicit
21:20 < zoeyou> a great opportunity for this media is on a local network,
21:20 < gdm> zoeyouareashe? :p
21:20 < zoeyou> share these files optimally on local level
21:20 < zoeyou> eg sharing table here
21:20 < gdm> (i know you, tho, so that is different)
21:20 < zoeyou> ahh
21:21 < zoeyou> am she
21:21 < gdm> i know
21:21 < zoeyou> optimum way to share files is on a wire locally
21:21 < zoeyou> sharing category am i making sense
21:22 < zoeyou> announcement about bfi sessions tomorrow
21:22 < zoeyou> if you don't want to go, or need directions, tell adele or mick
21:22 < zoeyou> free tickets if you do want to go,
21:23 < zoeyou> action points:
21:24 < zoeyou> design issues for rdf standard
21:24 < zoeyou> sharing not just internet
21:24 < zoeyou> translation and titling work process and tools
21:25 < zoeyou> check the rdf standard on website
21:25 < zoeyou> net neutrality and creative common sessions a bit mixed
21:25 < zoeyou> map on the wall of project areas
21:25 < zoeyou> sharing, cms, transcoding, rdf, translation, various projects
21:26 < zoeyou> add your projects on the wall, indicate which areas you are active and intend to be more active
21:26 < zoeyou> all the tasks require us to do the work.
